Designing with Kuma: Anteo Sanada on Process and Practice

An Interview with Anteo Sanada by Ana Mirena Nick Neves, Tomoki Tashiro and Veronika Róza Háló 

Ana Mirena Nick Neves (AMNN): So, my first question would be: among the projects you've worked on at the office, which one changed you the most, either as a person or as an architect? 

Anteo Sanada (AS): Maybe the Hans Christian Andersen Museum, because it was a very long process, it lasted around a year and was divided in two phases. I had to fly around many times and I didn’t know what or how to do it, but to experience it with the whole team was quite good, and also because we won it. Actually, I think the projects that we lost probably taught me and changed me more, but then I think it's easier to say that (Andersen Museum) was the best because it went well too. However, I don't think a single project can actually change you, it's a process. You do so many things with so many different people that at some point you start realizing little things. So, it's never like, “oh, now I know,” it's step by step, and then the more you do, the more you understand how you think about projects and also how to deal with others and communicate your ideas. I think it's not really only one point. 

AMNN: I understand. Was there something specific you realized at the end of this project? 

AS: Something interesting when you finish a project is that, after being so focused on the design, you start seeing it just from your own perspective. But then you start realising there are so many other interpretations: there is Kengo Kuma's vision – what he sees in the design – there's what you see, other people see, the client sees… Everyone sees something different in the building. So you really have to try not to focus only on your vision, but to understand all these different voices that might impact the project. Because you're not doing it only for yourself, right? So you also have to understand what other people will think about it. And that's quite difficult, it's quite challenging. 

Veronika Róza Háló (VRH): In designing for a site as architecturally well-articulated as the Gulbenkian Foundation – deeply embedded in Lisbon’s vibrant urban fabric for decades – what were the challenges during the concept development process? Additionally, which elements of the surrounding built environment served as anchor points and influenced the proposal the most? 

AS: It wasn’t my competition, actually – we have a Portuguese partner in the office who followed it closely. I didn’t take part in the design process myself, but when I heard about it, I thought, ‘Oh no, the Gulbenkian!’ I really appreciate that place and had been there a couple of times before. My first thought was: there's nothing to do, right? But what they did was actually very clever. They didn’t add much; in fact, the interior feels even more minimal now, and the structure is more exposed. Of course, they had to add some spaces, but I think they managed to respect the building. Nothing feels invasive. They introduced some subtle landscape elements, like a new canopy, which I think works well in relation to the existing architecture. It's not attached in a disruptive way, and it doesn't compromise the original buildings – just a light addition on two

sides. It feels like a delicate intervention, and that’s why I think it’s successful. Part of that comes from the fact that everyone, including our design team, loves the museum and deeply respects the architecture. So the guiding principle became: let’s not do too much. Had it been a building with less value or charm, maybe we would’ve felt freer to make bolder changes. But in this case, restraint made sense. 

VRH: Personally, it was meaningful to revisit the space. I was there 12 years ago when I lived nearby, and now again, even during the construction phase, the park remained very usable. 

AS: That was important too. The landscape itself is quite special. We collaborated with Vladimir Durovic, whose approach is really refined – it aligned beautifully with what we were doing. 

Tomoki Tashiro (TT): I would love to hear more about your experience working at a firm like this. You've stayed there for 10 years. I think you're in a unique position working in multiple countries and I'm curious how you feel about that. What is work life like? 

AS: Now it’s easier. It’s very flexible because I follow multiple projects, and I can’t really do too much for each of them. I have to trust the project managers we work with, they have to lead the team. So I can’t go too deep, I’m mostly supervising. I think that’s the biggest challenge, because it’s not as fun. You want to do things yourself, right? I don’t think offices are meant to be so big, but it just happened with Kuma. So, in the end, it’s not only about designing, you also have to communicate and collaborate with other people. We spend a lot of time trying to align Kuma’s vision with the outcome that’s being produced by the different teams. So it’s interesting. But yeah, of course, it can be frustrating that you can’t do it in first person all the time. 

TT: Is Kuma's vision prevalent in all the projects? 

AS: I think so. I mean, he follows everything. We don't have different partners that have independent teams, so we are always checking with him during different phases of the project, he has constant input in the project. But at the same time, he reflects and respects a lot of our ideas. I think that's his key to doing so many projects without repeating himself too much, because he always combines what he wants with everybody's input, he listens a lot to everyone. We also don't have a top-down hierarchy, so we always come up with ideas together. Actually, most of the ideas come from the younger members of the office. It's quite rare for a senior to come up with an idea and implement it. Typically, we discuss the ideas, they generate a lot of them, and then we select the best ones and help refine them. So it's like a team effort and never imposing. For example, Kuma never had a dream and said “I saw that”, “we need to do this”. We always have a conversation about projects. And then in the end, we end up refining it or selecting, narrowing down options together to come up with one design. 

TT: You said work is easier now. Was it harder before? 

AS: Yes. In terms of time, when I joined, the office was smaller, like around 70 people. And now we are at almost 400. So, when I joined, we usually stayed till very late every day. And the smaller the office, the more time you actually spend in the office. That's the equation. The bigger

the office gets, the more difficult it is to control everyone. And so working hours get a bit better. In that sense, now we work less than before. It was quite hard in the beginning. 

TT: When you joined, it was in Japan, right? What brought you there? 

AS: Well, my mother is Japanese. And I guess when you graduate in Italy, you have to look around, because it's not easy to find a job here. By that point, I had already completed some internships at Shigeru Ban's office in Japan, so I knew it could be challenging. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to go back to Japan, but I ended up sending CVs mostly to Japan because I really like the architecture. Kengo Kuma’s office was one of the first places I applied to, and they replied. I had the interview at their Paris office, and then I immediately joined. 

AMNN: It was such a pleasure, thank you so much for taking the time to have this conversation with us. 

VRH: Yes, thank you so much. 

AS: Thank you. Any question, you can ask. 

TT: Well, I don't want to keep you from the snacks. 

AS: (Laughs) Yes. Let's go there. It's a good idea.